(This article is drawn from the transcript of the “60 Minutes” report on its website.)
In a segment called “Pope Leo’s Church” on the CBS News program “60 Minutes” on April 12, the three U.S. cardinals heading archdioceses reflected on the pope’s leadership and on why Catholic Church leaders have voiced opposition to the United States’ war against Iran and the Trump administration’s policy of mass deportations of undocumented immigrants.
Norah O’Donnell – a senior correspondent for CBS News and a contributing correspondent for “60 Minutes” – noted that it was the first-ever joint interview with Cardinal Joseph W. Tobin of Newark, New Jersey; Cardinal Robert W. McElroy of Washington, D.C.; and Cardinal Blase J. Cupich of Chicago.
Introducing the report on the pope and the Church he leads, O’Donnell noted that “Leo is measured, deliberate and soft-spoken. But the American pope has become increasingly outspoken against certain policies of the American president.”
In January, Cardinal Tobin, Cardinal McElroy and Cardinal Cupich issued a rare joint statement on the morality of U.S. foreign policy, drawing from Pope Leo XIV’s address to diplomats that month, when the pontiff warned that “a diplomacy that promotes dialogue and seeks consensus among all parties is being replaced by a diplomacy based on force… War is back in vogue and a zeal for war is spreading.”
In that statement, the three cardinals emphasized the importance of international aid, noting how wealthy nations were reducing their humanitarian foreign assistance programs. They stressed safeguarding human life and protecting religious freedom, and the cardinals also renounced war, saying “military action must be seen only as a last resort in extreme situations, not a normal instrument of national policy.”
On April 11, Pope Leo held a Vigil for Peace in Rome, and he invited Catholics around the world to hold prayer vigils for peace that day, and Cardinal McElroy was among many Church leaders who celebrated Vigil Masses for Peace. That day, coincidentally, peace talks began in Pakistan aimed at ending the war with Iran, but the negotiations ended the next day without an agreement.
When Norah O’Donnell asked if the United States’ war with Iran is a just war, Cardinal McElroy responded, “No, in the Catholic teaching this is not a just war. The Catholic faith teaches us there are certain prerequisites for a just war. You can’t go for a variety of different aims. You have to have a focused aim, which is to restore justice and restore peace. That’s it.”
Then O’Donnell pointed out that Iran is “a chief exporter of terror,” and asked if there were any scenarios under which the war could be considered just, and the report later noted that President Trump has argued that the military action was needed to destroy Iran’s nuclear program.
“It's an abominable regime, and it should be removed,” Cardinal McElroy said, adding, “But this is a war of choice that we went to, and I think it’s embedded in a wider moment in the United States that’s worrying, which is this: We’re seeing before us the possibility of war after war after war.”
The report also noted how Cardinal Cupich has criticized the portrayal of the war by the White House’s social media.
“We're dehumanizing the victims of war by turning the suffering of people and the killing of children and our own soldiers into entertainment,” Cardinal Cupich said.
Cardinal Tobin was asked about a statement he made in January, calling Immigration and Customs Enforcement, ICE, “a lawless organization.”
“When people act in this way, when they have to hide their identities to terrify people, when they can actually violate other guarantees of our Constitution and Bill of Rights, well I think somebody’s got to call that out,” Cardinal Tobin said.
Norah O’Donnell noted that the interview with the three cardinals was taking place in a Catholic church in Washington, but the pastor asked “60 Minutes” not to reveal its name or location.
Cardinal McElroy explained, “He’s worried for his people. They live under fear, and thus our Mass count within the Spanish Masses in our archdiocese went down 30% from the year before. Thirty percent. That’s a lot. And it’s all fear.”
The cardinal, who served as the bishop of San Diego before being appointed as Washington’s archbishop last year, said he believes in strong borders, and he conceded that border crossings by migrants were “getting out of control” under the Biden administration.
But Cardinal McElroy criticized the federal government’s mass deportation policy, saying, “This is a roundup of people throughout the country. People who have been living good, strong lives, been here a long time, raised their children here, many of their children born here, and are citizens. That’s what our objection is.”
After Norah O’Donnell pointed out that a majority of Catholics voted for President Trump in the last election, and he campaigned on securing the border and deporting immigrants here illegally, Cardinal Cupich responded, “I would like to know what Catholics feel about this indiscriminate mass deportation. I think that it’s very clear the American people are saying, ‘We really didn’t vote for this.’”
The “60 Minutes” report noted how Pope Leo has instituted the Vatican’s first job training center at his papal summer home in Castel Gandolfo, where migrants and local people in need are learning sustainable farming, gardening and cooking.
Pointing out that Pope Leo has announced that he will spend July 4 in Lampedusa, Italy, an island where migrants land on their way to Europe, Norah O’Donnell asked if the pope was sending a message by doing that on the day of the 250th anniversary of the United States.
The message the pope is sending, Cardinal Cupich said, is “that his top priority right now is to be with those who are downcast and marginalized.”
(The “60 Minutes” report on “Pope Leo’s Church” was produced by Keith Sharman, Julie Morse Goff and Roxanne Feitel.)
